HideAndSeekLOGIC's Ban Appeal, or "ID dn't hit her"

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Byond account and character name: Big Dick Bazuso
Banning admin: Cubetastic
Ban type (What are you banned from?):
Server
Ban reason and length:
A week, for stealing the captain's ID
Time ban was placed (including time zone):
Two days ago
Your side of the story:


1. I was experimenting with a bootleg adrenals mix and poured hot morphine into a nicotine and meth mix.
2. The consequences happened - I lost 3 limbs and my life, as well as literally everything I had on me.
3. Got cloned.
4. Got some clothes from the other chemist, but I didn't have any ID which disintegrated in the explosion.
5. No HoP, so I decided to do a bit of law breakin' by communising myself some AA
6. Got caught and ass-raped by sec, then put in perma.
7. Admin asks if I stole it, then bans me for a week.

Why you think you should be unbanned:


There are several reasons for why a week ban is excessive, possibly to the extent of being unnecessary.

First of all, this is nowhere near enough a clear-cut violation of the rules to warrant a ban, especially one of the length given. How can I claim this?

Because it's easy to argue both ways.

The main reason lies in that the rule is quite ambiguous in its phrasing. What does "limit" mean? Nobody knows, so we can only assume...

Let's consider the theft of All Access and see how it fits into the bigger picture. What do I get in return from this theft? The ability to open any door and therefore the ability to enter any part of the station. As a result of this, there is also a very high chance the security team will consider me a criminal guilty of grand theft - the punishment for this is perma or death.

Now, let's consider options which were verified by the admins as 'what I wouldn't've been banned for'. They included: breaking into robotics to build myself a wall-breaking gygax, stealing a jaws of life from engineering and using a toolbox to bolt open doors or windows; all pretty shit options and I'll explain why.

The Gygax: it's allowed by the rules as it's technically printed from the protolathe (plus, people make themselves mechs all the time without admin intervention). However, it's easy to see how this mech is an even more of a powergaming tool than AA - you permanently destroy walls, you have access to incredibly powerful weapons and you are able to shrug off almost any attack. Overall, this allowed item is able to cause much more damage than AA; clearly, it's completely illogical that one is considered bannable powergaming while the other isn't.

Jaws of Life: as a protolathe item, it's allowed. What is different from this to AA? Well, to be honest, nothing too significant. Sure there's a small delay, but it'd be too easy to bring along a screwdriver and a wirecutter to bolt doors open permanently. Yet, it's clearly allowed - it's a protolathe item, after all! If only I knew to nick one of these instead of AA...

Toolbox: this is by far the most harmful item to the station, although I doubt the admins would have done anything about me if I walked around bolting open every door I need to walk through. This option would have been magnitudes more harmful than AA to the station, wherein people would constantly be forced to repair the damages caused by me or bear the burden of anyone on the station being able to walk in.

So why, despite AA being a better option for both me and the station does it warrant a ban? Well, other than its IC protection it'd be nothing. You see, in the game, AA is considered a grand theft tier item - taking it results in one of the harshest punishments possible IC.

However, this is IC protection, not OOC protection. OOC the AA is simply an item, if strong - compared to the given examples, there is little reason for it to result in a ban of any magnitude.

In short, I had a reasonable if illegal justification and the rules as stated accommodated for that. The given examples support this.

Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.
 

Cubetastic

Assistant
I'll add one more detail, that you missed on your side of the story.

You thermited into the captain's office to get to the locker. Once you got caught, sec took the locker, you escaped and got more thermite, then began to burn your way into the brig. At that point is where I bwoinked you.

I'm going to let other admins interpret this first, then give my opinion. I dislike appeal threads that turn into arguments between the banning admin and the banned player, and I think that'd help to keep it civil.

Edit: He was nonantag too
 
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I made too much thermite and the locker was now in sec, so I chose to have another go at AA; I could've gone for the other options, but I believe AA would still be the best of them all.
 

peer

Janitor
SysOp
So you as a non-antag chemist went after something you shouldn't have?
25

Clear violation. Ban upheld.
 
So you as a non-antag chemist went after something you shouldn't have?
View attachment 25

Clear violation. Ban upheld.
What would you suggest I do if I lose my ID in the future? AA was a bad option in a line of bad options.

I'd also prefer if you did this after reading my appeal, or at least gave any sort of indication that you did.
 
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peer

Janitor
SysOp
Do what I would do. Annoy everyone on the station IC until something happened. Create content.
 
So basically, if you lose your ID you need to completely abandon your job and round or do things which would qualify you as a dick; for anything else you do will get you banned.

Plus, how does nabbing the captain's locker create less quality content than begging people to give you access?
 

Urytion

Assistant
Ahelping also exists for situations like this.

As for my opinion on the ban, you have a fairly extensive history and escalating consequences is a thing.
 
Ahelping also exists for situations like this.

As for my opinion on the ban, you have a fairly extensive history and escalating consequences is a thing.
...Are you seriously suggesting ahelping in this situation? This has to be a joke. It's the first time I've ever heard someone direct someone to admins in the case of a lost ID - I doubt they themselves will appreciate a bwoink "can I get an ID card".

That aside, would you mind showing this 'extensive history' of me stealing AA?
 
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Urytion

Assistant
I am telling you, as an admin, that if your ID is destroyed and there is not single person on the station who can get you a new ID (no captain, no HoP, no AI or borg to give another head access to the spare), that I would rather you ahelp the situation than break server rules.

And it's not about just stealing. All history is taken into account when banning a person.
 
I am telling you, as an admin, that if your ID is destroyed and there is not single person on the station who can get you a new ID (no captain, no HoP, no AI or borg to give another head access to the spare), that I would rather you ahelp the situation than break server rules.

And it's not about just stealing. All history is taken into account when banning a person.
The problem is, it's extremely easy to argue that taking captain's ID in such a situation is, in practice, no different from using any of the other methods I gave as examples. This is, of course, despite all of the listed methods being perfectly fine and not warranting a week ban on the spot. Please read what I wrote in my original appeal if you want more information on my reasonings - and do feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

In terms of my 'extensive history', care to find something relevant to this particular case?
 

peer

Janitor
SysOp
As for my opinion on the ban, you have a fairly extensive history and escalating consequences is a thing.
That aside, would you mind showing this 'extensive history' of me stealing AA?
I see a missing "of you stealing AA" in Urytion's statement, that's not what he said, friend.

You have 10 notes, 7 of which are bans, both job and server, 1 of which is a removed ban.
7 in the last month, 3 in the last week.

extensive history

-----


The problem is, it's extremely easy to argue that taking captain's ID in such a situation is, in practice, no different from using any of the other methods I gave as examples.
Except it's not. it's powergaming. and breaking back into sec is self-antagging.
 
I see a missing "of you stealing AA" in Urytion's statement, that's not what he said, friend.

You have 10 notes, 7 of which are bans, both job and server, 1 of which is a removed ban.
7 in the last month, 3 in the last week.

extensive history
Care to find anything relevant to this particular case?

In regards to what you edited in,

What magically makes Captain's ID "not limited" powergaming while all my examples aren't? Please explain this to me, in a way that addresses the original appeal as well.

In addition, you claim breaking into any part of sec is self-antagging. In that case, it'd be wise to be more consistent in the future as I have never in my history of this game I seen someone declared an antagonist from breaking into exclusively the non-armoury parts of sec.
 
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Nope, nothing. You have an extensive history as a player. We have never said "you've done this before here's a week ban" it's been "you should know better by now".
The only reason I see you refuse to post logs is because you'd instantly realise how absolutely moronic your accusation is. Let me give you a list of my offences, from memory:

1. This one
2. Pinged admins in chat
3. Pinged admins in chat
4. Gnomed an admin
5. Terra being sad that I didn't let him ERP with a catgirl as AI
6. Ban for spamming shuttlecall
7. Ban for spamming shuttlecall
8. Flooded the station to kill pirates
9. Shot someone with fentanyl instead of chloral
10. Something else, it's not like I can open up byond and see what it is

hurr hith tikked noombe ith bigh durr he shud k-no bedda

In regards to terra's shuttlecall bans:
26
 

Cubetastic

Assistant
So far, 3 admins are in agreement over it being a correct ban. I agree with what peer/urytion said, and I don't feel like I can add much more to the discussion.
 
So far, 3 admins are in agreement over it being a correct ban. I agree with what peer/urytion said, and I don't feel like I can add much more to the discussion.
So let me get this straight - you consider the opinion of admins who failed to address the crux of my argument and then instantly went quiet the moment theirs was dismantled... valid?

Nice...
 

Cubetastic

Assistant
So let me get this straight - you consider the opinion of admins who failed to address the crux of my argument and then instantly went quiet the moment theirs was dismantled... valid?

Nice...
You're trying to make this as difficult as possible for us. You broke a rule in an extremely clear cut fashion, and your main argument is that the rule itself is vague. It is not.

Breaking and entering as a non-antag to take one of the most sought after and powerful items on the station is bannable. Who would have thought! Additionally, you say that the admins verified a bunch of other items as not being bannable. This I find very odd, as you asked me whether powergaming and taking those items was bannable, to which I replied "Yes".

Its a waste of time to debate you on finer points when the crux of your own argument is completely false. Because it is such a waste of time, I refuse to do it. Ban appeals when done badly are back and forth argument that go on forever, that in the end NOBODY wants to read. By taking this route, you are encouraging less admins to read your appeal. The ones that actually do read it, like me, have to go through the mindfuck of how to even talk to you without making you triggered into telling us why we are wrong about absolutely everything.
 
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