Dawson Admin Power Abuse

BL00DASP

Assistant
Your Byond name: Bl00dasp
Your character name: Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls
Their Byond name (if known):
Dawson1917
Their character name:
Dawson Copper
Time and date:
Tuesday 13th april 20 11:00 ish
Round ID:
6985
Logs and/or screenshots: I do not have any screenshots
Description of the events that occurred:
Near the start of the round me and kay (who were debtor and assistant respectively) saw a miner go into the vault round start. like almost immediately before they went to lavaland. Kay went afterwards and saw that the docs were missing and he PDA messaged me about it.

we decided to do something more fun than trying to kill oryell out that he's a tot and we went to lavaland and stun + cuffed him and offered him a deal to let us use half his TC in exchange for not yelling over radio about him stealing the docs, he agreed and we bought an Emag.

First i used the mag on the supply console to buy spec ops crates, did not end up using anything in them but we did do it. While i was getting them kay finds out Null crates don't exist anymore and says "fuck you admemes". he then gets struck by lightning. (i later find you that this was done by dawson). this proves that he was listening to all chat everywhere which will be an important fact later. (this isn't a problem by itself i know its something admins do).

after that we used the emag on the holo deck to get the stamina damage e-swords and armour. me and kay decide to do the gimmick we have been trying to do for about a week now that is making a maint fort and seeing how far we can push it (every time we get interrupted by ben kirb or powergame). while we are doing this i notice that my holo gear disappeared. i went to investigate the holo-deck. i hear acid sounds and when i get there i catch a glimpse of someone moving down into maint and the console is gone completely.

I follow the person and find Dawson Copper in me and kays fledgeling maint fortress in maint. i ask him why he destroyed the holo deck and he says "safeties disabled" over and over when we try to ask why that was a problem even. at this point I thought he had taken the computer board (which i find out later in ooc that it does not drop a board when destroyed) so i tried pushing and going for cuffs on him so I could get it back. I forgot i'm a debtor and it just did some punches. at this point kay was there too and he joined in trying to retrieve the board for the computer.

dawson then pulls out some death nettle and kills us both. he then loots both of us and cremates the bodies. while doing this he uses that emag to get into the crematorium. for the rest of the round he uses the emag whenever he finds a door he wants to go through quite liberally.

later while i was observing him as a ghost someone asks if tots killed the miner. (the one we took TC off at the beginning who also at this point was not dead) dawson replies "the miner was a tot". i see no way for dawson to have found that information. we did not tell him and i doubt the miner would have.

In OOC he says that he only got the deathnettle because we would whine about our toys being taken away.

Why you believe they should be punished:


This is a problem because the only way he could have gotten this information was through him seeing all chat everywhere with his admin powers. yet if he were to knew this then he would also know that me and kay extorted him for the emag. yet he chooses to ignore that ooc information (only when it suits him) and kill us and cremate the bodies citing that we were tots to the crew.

Abuse of admin powers to get and then act upon meta knowledge only when it suits them is not something i would like to see from the people put in charge of keeping and enforcing the servers rules such as rule 0c. Don't metagame

after the round was over kay told me on discord that he A-helped this incident and the part where he killed us was ignores saying that it was a IC issue. Cubetastic said that he was going to dob him in for mis using his admin powers, i do not know if anything has come of this
 

terra

Terra
Host
Investigation
Reviewed logs:
Your first point: Dawson was actually an observer at the time, after dying. All ghosts can see all chat on the station, unless specifically disabled in the Ghost tab. Dawson saw your message and specifically re-admined to smite you, before de-admining again.
This is light admin bus, but absolutely not admin powers abuse.
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
[2021-04-13 10:02:45.994] GAME: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has died (BRUTE: 105.8, BURN: 113.7, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (Starboard Primary Hallway (129, 137, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:02:47.330] GAME: *no key*/(Dawson Kopper) *no key*/(Dawson Kopper) is no longer owning mob Dawson Kopper(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Starboard Primary Hallway (129, 137, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:02:47.344] GAME: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) Client Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has taken ownership of mob Dawson Kopper(/mob/dead/observer) (Starboard Primary Hallway (129, 137, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:05:26.250] SAY: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) "Fuck you admemes" (Cargo Bay (71, 150, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:05:31.364] ADMIN: Dawson1917 re-adminned themselves.
[2021-04-13 10:05:37.611] ADMIN: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) punished PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) with Lightning bolt.
[2021-04-13 10:05:41.282] ADMIN: Dawson1917 deadmined themself.
For the destruction of the holodeck console, it was certainly not admin deleted. You heard acid sounds as Dawson hit it with the death nettles.
This isn't at all an issue. An emagged holodeck console has the ability to instantly plasma flood a large quadrant of the station with a single click, so destroying it is okay.
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
[2021-04-13 10:13:37.075] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:37.982] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:38.939] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:39.906] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:40.741] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:41.547] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:42.356] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:13:43.296] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked [holodeck control console] with the deathnettle (Recreation Area (156, 176, 2))
He didn't say "safeties disabled" "over and over", he said it twice, just thought I'd mention that
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
[2021-04-13 10:14:25.131] SAY: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) "Why did you break the console?" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 167, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:28.537] SAY: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) "yea" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (150, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:30.154] SAY: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) "why" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (150, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:31.443] SAY: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) "Safeties were off" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:34.474] SAY: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) "Ok" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 167, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:35.425] SAY: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) "And" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 167, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:41.892] SAY: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) "Safeties were off" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
Now the part where he kills you (yes, portal reference), which is ironically shorter than all of the rest of this despite being the most important.
I investigated the logs; you used a bola on dawson, and attacked him with debtor punch. Dawson didn't do very much in response except throw a cleaner grenade. After you don't let up, he hits you with a nettle, to which you stun him with a flash. Then kay stabbed dawson with a sleepy pen that you forgot to mention. At that point he kills both of you with nettles before he falls unconscious from the pen.
As the one handling the complaint, my view is that killing or critting your attacker after noticing you were stabbed with a sleepy pen is fine, considering how little time you have before falling unconscious and being completely helpless against your attacker.
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
[2021-04-13 10:14:51.289] ATTACK: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) has thrown the bola (Starboard Bow Maintenance (150, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:51.327] ATTACK: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) has threw and hit Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) with the bola (NEWHP: 90.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (150, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:52.587] ATTACK: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) has punched Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) (NEWHP: 84.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:53.565] ATTACK: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) has headbutts (Psychotic Brawling) Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) (NEWHP: 76.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:55.867] ATTACK: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) has punched Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) (NEWHP: 67.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 170, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:55.894] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has thrown the cleaner grenade (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:14:55.928] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has threw and hit PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) with the cleaner grenade (NEWHP: 94.7)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:00.982] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 54.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:01.282] ATTACK: Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) has flashed(targeted) Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) with the flash (NEWHP: 61.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 170, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:14.913] ATTACK: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) has stabbed Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) with the pen (NEWHP: 41.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:14.913] ATTACK: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/toxin/chloralhydrate (20u), /datum/reagent/toxin/mutetoxin (15u) and /datum/reagent/toxin/staminatoxin (10u)) from the pen to Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) (NEWHP: 41.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:14.914] ATTACK: PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) has transferred reagents (no reagents) from the pen to Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) (NEWHP: 41.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:22.406] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -68.5)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:23.217] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -80.5)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:24.211] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked Bl00DASP/(Robs Tool Storage Of The Insuls) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -90.7)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (152, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:25.563] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -24.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:26.803] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -30.2)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:27.761] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -32.3)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 169, 2))
[2021-04-13 10:15:28.697] ATTACK: Dawson1917/(Dawson Kopper) has attacked PsychNurse/(Kay Toberly) with deathnettle (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: -36.1)  (Starboard Bow Maintenance (151, 169, 2))
Now, the only part where I actually have an issue, which is the cremation. While dawson did have every reason to suspect you were traitors, or possibly incursion due to your emag, sleepy pen and syndicate stimulants, you were both completely incapacitated (dead), and all your gear didn't need to be cremated as a result.
I wouldn't argue dawson had any reason to suspect you both weren't traitors however, so again I reiterate he was justified in killing you, especially after your attack.

In OOC he says that he only got the deathnettle because we would whine about our toys being taken away.
I checked OOC logs, he never actually said this.
the closest I could find was this:
they tried to kill me for destroying their powergamer holodeck gear
Conclusion
The title of your post is very misleading, as Dawson never at any point abused his admin powers. He did adminbus you slightly about the nullcrates (which funnily, aren't the admins' fault, it's the coders' fault), but other than that, there are zero issues.

Dawson destroying the holodeck console and killing you in self-defense after getting sleepy-penned are also non-issues.

However, the cremation was too far, and I'll be warning dawson and adding a note for it, same as I would for any other player.

As for Dawson using the emag himself, according to the logs it happened a total of four times, and is honestly a petty complaint. If I punished dawson for using the emag, I'd have to punish you for using it as well.

Unless you anything else to add, I'll consider this resolved. I think I've been pretty thourough with this.
 

Dawson1917

Janitor
I'll start by pointing out you and Kay have been metabuddying every round I've been in for the last week, starting each round by grouping up and crafting spears, cuffs, and bolas, and aiding eachother through the round, even if one of you is an antag. Around half of those rounds I've seen the two of you break into security to steal armor, stunbatons and armory weapons, even if only one of you is an antag. In almost all of them, I've seen you either kill or try to intimidate anyone trying to deal with the two of you by flexing the fact that you're teamed up and both have weapons and stuns for no particular reason. I've been trying to push you away from doing this, which is why I haven't brought it up in more than passing conversation with other admins.

"we decided to do something more fun than trying to kill oryell out that he's a tot and we went to lavaland and stun + cuffed him and offered him a deal to let us use half his TC in exchange for not yelling over radio about him stealing the docs, he agreed and we bought an Emag."
Using your metabuddy to gang up on and mug an antag for doing something suspicious is not fun for anyone involved but you.

"While i was getting them kay finds out Null crates don't exist anymore and says "fuck you admemes". he then gets struck by lightning. (i later find you that this was done by dawson). this proves that he was listening to all chat everywhere which will be an important fact later. "
I was a ghost at this time after fucking around with another player in atmos. I saw the "fuck you admemes" and readminned to deliver a lightning bolt, which is something we do all the time for ooc in ic'ing, and because it's funny. Kay said he wondered if it was an automatic thing, and said "fuck you admemes" another three times, so I smited him, after he had already healed himself to full with ointment.

"after that we used the emag on the holo deck to get the stamina damage e-swords and armour. "
The armor that gives you 80% resistance to bullets and melee, 50% resistance to lasers, 60% resistance to stamina, and immunity to bombs or radiation or fire or acid, as well as the stamina damage esword. Powergaming to this level is high tier shittery, making it borderline impossible for any player on the station to deal with the two of you, and you had no reason to grab them. When I joined the round as an assistant the first thing I saw was the two of you running around with spears and thunderdome suits, so I decided to go deactivate the holodeck console because you were being cringelords.

"dawson then pulls out some death nettle and kills us both. he then loots both of us and cremates the bodies. while doing this he uses that emag to get into the crematorium. for the rest of the round he uses the emag whenever he finds a door he wants to go through quite liberally."
I cremated you to show you it's pretty unfun to remove people from the round as soon as you kill them, which is something I see the both of you do every round you're antagonists. Hopefully you can learn that it makes rounds more interesting if you leave people, even targets, in a state where it's possible that they might make it back into the round. To add to that, the two of you attacked me, had traitor items, and weapons and armor, and there was no sec or anyone else on the station to deal with you when you inevitably come back to kill me after being cloned.

"later while i was observing him as a ghost someone asks if tots killed the miner. (the one we took TC off at the beginning who also at this point was not dead) dawson replies "the miner was a tot". i see no way for dawson to have found that information. we did not tell him and i doubt the miner would have. "
I had suicided in the incinerator room/fusion tank, and readminned myself now that I was out of the round. I checked antagonists to get the full picture of what was going on in this round, and saw that the only miner that didn't derelict from duty was a traitor who was hiding in a locker for the rest of the round, no doubt because they didn't want to get caught and mugged or valided by the two of you again.

"In OOC he says that he only got the deathnettle because we would whine about our toys being taken away. " Terra missed this, I definitely said it either in that round or the pre-game for the next round. There was no way and no-one on the station to deal with the two of you metabuddying with gear nobody else on the station has any reason to have, so I picked up the death nettle the botanist offered over comms incase the two of you had a hissyfit over your deathsquad armor being taken away. And you did.


As far as I'm concerned, this is just you and Psychnurse whining because you died. You definitely knew you were metaganging, and you definitely knew you were breaking the rules, and I would've dealt with it as an admin sooner if I had less patience or wasn't already playing in or involved in most of these rounds.
 

BL00DASP

Assistant
I was unaware of Dawson arriving late to the shift, i had assumed that he was there from round start that's my bad. I did not realise there was a botanist either and i had assumed that was where he had spent his round start time. From what it looked like to me i made my conclusions, i'm sorry about making that accusation.

The smiting was not an issue, i thought it was funny.

As for "Using your metabuddy to gang up on and mug an antag for doing something suspicious is not fun for anyone involved but you. "
we were both in tool storage doing the assistant thing of getting tools when we saw him go in, and after looking in there finding the docs missing is not a suspicion its confirmation. as for the course of action we took we deliberately decided to something that i would argue is better than what most people would do which is straight up kill the valid. we left him alive to do what he wanted and we got a neat little RP opportunity out of it and some gear we would not usually have.

"I cremated you to show you it's pretty unfun to remove people from the round as soon as you kill them, which is something I see the both of you do every round you're antagonists. Hopefully you can learn that it makes rounds more interesting if you leave people, even targets, in a state where it's possible that they might make it back into the round "
if i am ever an antagonist it makes sense to remove the body from the possibility it will get revived, if it is the goal i am given. generally as a tot if i end up killing someone who is valid hunting me or a sec ect i will leave the body there after looting if im not actively being chased (if i am i will take the body with me in a B body bag). if you really really expect anyone to not try to do the greentext to the best of their ability on a NRP server please make that a rule or tell people directly.

"Powergaming to this level is high tier shittery, making it borderline impossible for any player on the station to deal with the two of you, and you had no reason to grab them. When I joined the round as an assistant the first thing I saw was the two of you running around with spears and thunderdome suits, so I decided to go deactivate the holodeck console because you were being cringelords."
Everyone has access to the emagged holodeck you yourself could have taken that gear. you say that is powergaming. we put in some effort for the holo-deck (getting the emag). with an emag we could have done so much more such as breaking into caps office + sec. destroying it is just asking for a fight. We're just trying to have fun with a gimmick. this makes it sound like you were just trying to antagonize us and provoke us into attacking you.

"In OOC he says that ...."
yea thats my bad i meant to say dead chat.


"I had suicided in the incinerator room/fusion tank, and readminned myself now that I was out of the round. I checked antagonists to get the full picture of what was going on in this round"
I specifically remember you saying the miner was a tot IC while standing below the hops office and was definitely before you suicided.
 

Dawson1917

Janitor
I specifically remember you saying the miner was a tot IC while standing below the hops office and was definitely before you suicided.
Oh, this would be because I thought you or Kay were miners at the time since you left two explorer suits on the holodeck floor, in response to someone asking why there are no materials. I didn't know the other miner was a traitor or that he was a miner at all at the time, I never saw him during the shift since it seems he was hiding in a locker on the mining shuttle all round
 

TheFakeElon

Security
Game Master
Just want to chip in here on a note unrelated to the adminbuse confusion.
If it was Kay or you being complained about in this situation, you probably would have been punished. Most of what Dawson did in this complaint was reactionary to you two over-esculating in a situation where you were the ones at fault. Providing and twisting half truths to support your argument is heavily frowned upon. The truth almost always comes to light during investigation, which not only makes you look bad, but it discredits the rest of your entire argument a bit too.

if i am ever an antagonist it makes sense to remove the body from the possibility it will get revived, if it is the goal i am given. generally as a tot if i end up killing someone who is valid hunting me or a sec ect i will leave the body there after looting if im not actively being chased (if i am i will take the body with me in a B body bag). if you really really expect anyone to not try to do the greentext to the best of their ability on a NRP server please make that a rule or tell people directly.
Bluespace bodybagging is not exactly better than cremation, especially if you're geared up.

You're allowed to play to greentext, no one said it was against the rules. But antags are encouraged to at least *try* and make the round engaging, that's the whole point of them in the first place, being wordlessly killed and disposed of by the powergaming validhunter miner for the 4th time this week isn't just boring or harmful to the round, it's damaging the overall health of the game. Those types of players are (part of) the reason why mining is and will continue to be slowly bandaid removed, systematic abuse has, does and will lead to systematic decline. Which just ruins the fun for those who played it properly. Not blaming this all on you btw, this is a longtime fundamental issue with both the code and player base.

tldr; do bad and bad will happen, do good and good will happen :).

We're just trying to have fun with a gimmick.
Building a powergame fort is not a gimmick.
 
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